1 JOHN 5:7,8 - I ASKED GOD FOR GOOD ANSWERS - I REQUIRE DUE DILIGENCE IN BIBLE STUDY

Jesus' example, in his masterful use of the Scriptures, is that we should expect, and seek, for true, reliable, answers from God's Holy Writ.

But, the Bible itself, and lots of historical experiences show that evil persons, both demon and human, have worked to corrupt and confuse God's word.

So, plenty of "due diligence" is required. We cannot carelessly assume anything.

My experience at this, is that God will cause the true Bible to win.

In the passage below, from John's first letter, verse 7, is said by many, to be of very questionable authenticity.

Verse 8 is NOT questioned.

⁷For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

⁸And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

I notice the English Standard and New International bibles omit most of verse 7.

The ESV has verses 7 and 8 this way:

7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.

I'm sure other bibles do also.

The King James Bible, shown below, and also the Geneva Bible, DO HAVE verse 7.

There is a terrific Comparison of Six Earliest New Testments by Clayton G. Porter (PDF 22 MB).

These ALL (the 5 that contain - 1 John 5) DO have verse 7 included.

Some folks shrug this off as a trivial matter. It is NOT, for several reasons.

In Matthew 4:4:

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

God does NOT say ANY idle words -- EVERY word GOD says is important.

EVERY WORD becomes very important to serious, meticulous, Bible students.

Jesus used verse 4 in his verbal match with the Devil in the wilderness.

Jesus did not reason with Satan, Jesus just quotes Scripture as the final authority.

Jesus says in John 10:35, the scripture cannot be broken.

And in Matthew 5:18 Jesus Christ says, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

A jot and tittle are the two smallest letters in the Hebrew alphabet.

From Matthew 4:4, 5:18, John 10:35 and other Scriptures we should expect that God would PROVIDENTIALLY PRESERVE AND TRANSMIT HIS SCRIPTURES DOWN THROUGH HISTORY MAKING THEM ACCESSABLE TO SERIOUS FOLKS.

I'm convinced God has done just exactly this.

THIS IS THE MOST SERIOUS QUESTION CONCERNING THE 1 JOHN 5:7 CONTROVERSY.

IF 1 JOHN 5:7 IS TRUE SCRIPTURE, AS I AM CONVINCED, THEN THE "RECEIVED TEXT" FROM WHICH THE KING JAMES BIBLE (KJB) AND OTHER OLDER BIBLES ARE TRANSLATED HAS THE VERY STRONGEST CLAIM TO AUTHENTICITY.

Modern bibles, in contrast, are translated from a different text known as the Critical Text.

One fairly obvious thing regarding verses 7 and 8 is that God has the two realms -- Heaven and Earth -- and there is, certainly, need for the witness of God in both realms.

Book of Revelation 12:

⁷And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

⁸And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

⁹And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This heavenly war is still FUTURE, -- perhaps not too far future.

Thus, it's completely appropriate to have both 1 John 5: 7 and 8.

1 John 5:4-13:

⁴For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

⁵Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

⁶This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

⁷For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

⁸And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

⁹If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

¹⁰He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

¹¹And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

¹²He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

¹³These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The following promise in this same passage is one I have personally used, successfully many times. I have not found anyone who knows how to use it. God showed me how.

God graciously, wondrously showed me how to use it. I explain below.

¹⁴And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

¹⁵And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

I'm convinced God has again made good on this promise to me.

He has indicated verse 5:7 DOES belong in the passage and he has also shown me interesting things about verse 8. I had prayed for both.

The "we" in the promise (verse 14 above) means believers in Jesus Christ.

Incidentally the fact that God has made good to me on this promise is strong confirmation to me, I am one on his believers.

The "according to his will," means (in the case of asking God a question) that the person making the petition, will embrace God's answer, sight unseen, in advance, not knowing what it will be.

One cannot THINK, If I don't like God's answer, I will turn it down. THIS WILL VOID THE PROMISE.

One must be fully determined TO embrace God's answer, in advance, not knowing what it will be, for God to make good on the promise.

This makes this promise unavailable to many persons in church positions, because the church doctrines they must hold to, prevent them from agreeing to embrace whatever God says -- in advance, sight unseen. They could likely get fired.

NOTE: In the academic area of "Logic" -- an "if - then" argument is the simplest -- "if I do this -- then this will occur."

1 John 5: 14,15 is an "if-then" argument -- If I, as a believer, ask anything according to his will -- then God will give me my petition:

¹⁴And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, IFwe ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
¹⁵And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Note -- there are NO OTHER requirements in the "if" part -- I DO NOT have to have a shinny halo, or be a clergyman, or be ordained, or anything else besides being a believer and asking "according to his will."

See my other pages for more details, and for other situations where I have used this promise:

Bragging Rights, Mormonism, Gender Roles, are some other pages where I have used this promise.

The absolute very best, most satisfying answer, which I believe God led me to, regarding 1 John 1:7, is posted at the King James Bible Page.

The article is 1 John 5:7 (Johannine Comma) - "These Three Are One."

At a page and a half long the article is well worth reading.

Dr. Holland says that while support among ancient Greek manuscripts is very weak, support among ancient Latin manuscripts is substantial.

He goes on to present an extremely strong argument for the inclusion of verse 7 based on the Greek grammar.

If verse 7 is absent, then the Greek of verse 8 is bad, that is, it is quite faulty.

If verse 7 is included, then the Greek grammar is just fine. So, internal evidence for inclusion is very strong.

So, Dr. Holland says, the external evidence of the Latin manuscript support makes the inclusion of verse 7 "possible."

And, the considerable strength of the internal grammatical evidence makes inclusion of verse 7, as authentic, "very probable".

Here are Dr. Holland's words in regard to the grammar argument:

"The strongest evidence, however, is found in the Greek text itself. Looking at 1 John 5:8, there are three nouns which, in Greek, stand in the neuter (Spirit, water, and blood). However, they are followed by a participle that is masculine. The Greek phrase here is oi marturountes (who bare witness). Those who know the Greek language understand this to be poor grammar if left to stand on its own. Even more noticeably, verse six has the same participle but stands in the neuter (Gk.: to marturoun). Why are three neuter nouns supported with a masculine participle? The answer is found if we include verse seven. There we have two masculine nouns (Father and Son) followed by a neuter noun (Spirit). The verse also has the Greek masculine participle oi marturountes. With this clause introducing verse eight, it is very proper for the participle in verse eight to be masculine, because of the masculine nouns in verse seven. But if verse seven were not there it would become improper Greek grammar."

Dr. Holland notes that a number of other experts have noted this same exact situation with the grammar.

Again the article is 1 John 5:7 (Johannine Comma) - "These Three Are One."

And, Dr. Holland adds, in conclusion, When we consider the providential hand of God and His use of the Traditional Text in the Reformation it is clear that the Comma is authentic.

I will discuss this somewhat more in looking at the "Word" in a following section.

Again, there is a terrific Comparison of Six Earliest New Testaments by Clayton G. Porter (PDF 22 MB).

These ALL (the ones that contain 1 John 5) include verse 7.

They are all translated from of the Traditional Greek Text family, to which Dr. Holland is referring.

I believe, as Dr. Holland well notes, that the so-called Protestant Reformation was a genuine providential movement of God.

And that God's use of, and provision of the Traditional Text is NO ACCIDENT, and thus the inclusion of 1 John 7 in that text is conclusive that God intends that it be there.

Let me discuss verse 7 a little more.

Commentators have said it is odd that John uses "Word," rather than "Son."

However in John 1 we have "Word" used, by John, speaking of Jesus Christ:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

And also in Revelation 19 we have "Word" used, referring to Jesus Christ:

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And also, in 1 John 1:1 we have the "Word" used, referring to Jesus Christ:

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

So, the use of "Word" by John in 1 John 5:7 is perfectly fitting.

In fact its use is additional evidence for the authenticity of verse 7.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Here is 1 John 5:7,8 again:

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

I asked God to show me the meaning of verse 8:

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

NOTE: Verse 8 is NOT a disputed verse.

How is it that these three, Spirit, water and blood are witnessing in this world today?

My commentary Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset, and David Brown 1871 wants to talk about past events in the life of Christ as providing the meaning of these three.

BUT, this does NOT sound correct -- the passage is talking about PRESENTLY ACTIVE realities in our world.

I do agree that past events in Christ's life certainly do give essential historical basis for these realities.

Furthermore the commentary focuses on their inner witness to believers.

Whereas, I think the passage is talking more about outward witness to the non-believing world.

The King James Bible, the Geneva, the Six Earliest New Testaments (PDF 22 MB) I mentioned before, and as I recall, modern versions, present this verse (5:8) as PRESENT reality.

These three earthly witnesses (verse 8) are operating RIGHT NOW, TODAY -- PRESENT ACTION.

But how?

Regarding the first witness, the Spirit, this is clearly the Comforter, and Spirit of Truth, Jesus refers to in John 16:

⁵But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

⁶But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

⁷Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

⁸And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

⁹Of sin, because they believe not on me;

¹⁰Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

¹¹Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

¹²I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

¹³Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

¹⁴He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

¹⁵All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

¹⁶A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

For more details on the above John 16 passage see JFB Commentary.

In John 7 we have:

³⁷In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

³⁸He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

³⁹(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

People will see the effects of the living water producing spiritual growth in a believer.

They cannot explain what they will see it a believer's life based on normal life considerations.

This is certainly the witness of the Spirit in accord with 1 John 5:8.

My experience is that observant people can tell, they will detect, that something is different about a believer.

It is God's witness by the Spirit in the believer in Jesus Christ.

Yes, the Spirit is a clear witness today, to believers and non-believers.

I asked God to show me the meaning of verse 8.

NOTE: Verse 8 is NOT a disputed verse.

How is it that these three, Spirit, water and blood are witnessing in this world today?

My commentary Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset, and David Brown 1871 wants to talk about past events in the life of Christ as providing the meaning of these three.

BUT, this does NOT sound correct -- the passage is talking about PRESENTLY ACTIVE realities.

I do agree that past events in Christ's life certainly do give essential historical basis for these realities.

The King James Bible, the Geneva, the Six Oldest New Testaments(PDF 22 MB) I mentioned before, and as I recall, modern versions, present this verse (5:8) as PRESENT reality.

These three earthly witnesses (verse 8) are operating RIGHT NOW, TODAY -- PRESENT ACTION.

But how?

Regarding the first witness, the Spirit, this is clearly the Comforter, and Spirit of Truth, Jesus refers to in John 16:

⁵But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

⁶But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

⁷Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

⁸And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

⁹Of sin, because they believe not on me;

¹⁰Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

¹¹Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

¹²I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

¹⁴He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

¹⁵All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

¹⁶A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

For more details on the above John 16 passage see JFB Commentary.

In John 7 we have:

³⁷In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

³⁸He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

³⁹(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

People will see the effects of the living water producing spiritual growth in a believer.

They cannot explain what they will see it a believer's life based on normal life considerations.

This is certainly the witness of the Spirit.

The following passage is applicable here.

2 Corinthians 2 says:

¹⁴Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

¹⁵For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

¹⁶To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

How does the Water witness in this world?

TWO WAYS -- Christian baptism AND the actual witness of God's WORD in our present world.

This later thing is THE REAL REASON SOME HATE VERSE 7 -- IT MEANS THE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD.

That is -- it means the Bible comes down to us by GOD'S PROVIDENTIAL PROTECTION AND PROVISION.

NOT BY LUCK OF HISTORY.

I'm convinced the "Water" in verse 8 refers to the water of Christian baptism, which certainly is a prominent witness, for Jesus Christ worldwide.

However, at a much deeper level, water refers to the Word which is the real, all powerful cleansing, regenerating agent behind the water symbol.

In 1 John 1:1 it is called the word of life:

¹That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

²(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

³That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

It's power is seen in the life of a believer, but verses below show its power is seen generally too.

In Christian baptism believers in the Lord Jesus Christ symbolize and commemorate their believing and embracing of him, who is the INCARNATE LIVING WORD, and his coming to live inside of them, making them "born again" as true children of God.

The commentary, Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset, and David Brown 1871, has some good thoughts on the following two verses, but tends to focus on past causes, and a believer's inner witness.

This is fine, but, I think the verses are talking about present time and witness to the world.

Certainly a believer is a big part of this witness as the Spirit, water and blood work in him, sanctifying him.

Reviewing 1 John 5:7,8:

⁷For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

⁸And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Again, it is the Word of God that is the true power behind the symbol of water as show by the following verses and in many other passages:

I believe the King James is stating correctly that the word acts powerfully and on its own.

Only certain persons, like the Apostles and some others could speak the word of God. See next verse.

Also, notice that the word of God is both spoken and written as indicated in the following verses.

2 Timothy 3:

¹⁶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

¹⁷That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Notice in the following verse that the Apostle Peter is referring to the Apostle Paul's writings as "Scripture."

2 Peter 3:

¹⁵And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

¹⁶As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

¹⁷Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

1 Corinthians 14:

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

In the Bible versions issue, we should be working to get the most accurate Bible we can based on the original manuscripts (which we do not have).

Also we want a Bible that comes from the STREAM of God's Word we see in the book of Acts.

I and others are convinced, only the King James Bible, and a few other old bibles meet these specification. Modern bibles are coming from a false STREAM of manuscripts.

John 15:

Jesus said, Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

1 Peter 1:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ephesians 5:

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.

Titus 3:

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In the New Testament, from the day of Pentecost onward, we see the word, or word of God acting powerfully and effectually.

Acts 4:

³¹And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts 6:

²Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

⁷And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Acts 8:

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Acts 10:

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Acts 11:

And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Acts 12:

²⁴But the word of God grew and multiplied.

Acts 13:

5And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

7Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.

26Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:

11And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Acts 19:

²⁰So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Acts20:

32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Hebrews 4:

¹¹Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

¹²For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

¹³Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

PLAINLY THE FORCE AND POWER OF THE WORD WITNESSED ON ITS OWN.

DOES IT WITNESS TODAY -- YES, BUT, FUSSINESS, PERFECTIONISM, MUST BE EMPLOYED to make as sure as possible we have the exact Word of God.

Most people I've met pick a bible with little if any investigation and carefulness. This is NOT good.

In John 17, Christ's High Priestly Prayer to God, Jesus prays:

¹⁶They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

¹⁷Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

¹⁸As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

¹⁹And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

²⁰Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

²¹That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So, Jesus deliberately prays that God the Father would provide the word to future believers.

This means the word would come down, providentially, through history, hand in hand with believers.

This IS TRUE of the Traditional Text underlying the King James Bible and other older bibles.

It is NOT TRUE of modern bibles which are based on the Critical Text.

This is THE MAJOR point regarding the King James Bible and other old bibles translated from the TRADITIONAL TEXT.

THE TRADITIONAL TEXT COMES DOWN THROUGH HISTORY IN PROVIDENTIAL STREAM HAND IN HAND WITH BELIEVERS.

THE CRITICAL TEXT UNDERLYING VIRTUALLY ALL MODERN BIBLES DOES NOT.

THE VATICANUS MANUSCRIPT, A MAIN PILLAR OF THE CRITICAL TEXT WAS LOST IN THE VATICAN LIBRARY FOR OVER 1000 YEARS -- IT WAS NOT HAND IN HAND WITH BELIEVERS.

THE SINAITICUS MANUSCRIPT, THE OTHER MAIN PILLAR OF THE CRITICAL TEXT WAS SUPPOSEDLY FOUND IN A WASTE BASKET AT THE MONASTERY ON MT. SINAI, IN EGYPT.

THUS, IT TOO DID NOT COME DOWN HAND IN HAND WITH THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH people.

ADHERENCE TO THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS NOT NOSTALGIA, OR SUPERSTITION -- IT IS BASED ON REAL REASONS.

SEE MY PAGES IS THE BIBLE REALLY THE WORD OF GOD?, AND WHY THE KING JAMES BIBLE.

WE MUST GO TO PAINS TO INSURE WE ARE CATCHING GOD'S STREAM OF HIS TRUE WORD.

WE MUST REJECT THE DEVIL'S IMITATION, which is COUNTERFEIT.

THIS TAKES GREAT CAREFULNESS.

ANY PUBLISHER CAN PRINT A BOOK AND PUT "HOLY BIBLE" ON THE COVER.

THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT GOD'S WORD AS WE SAW IT POWERFULLY CHARGING FORTH IN THE NEW TESTAMENT STARTING AT PENTECOST.

YES, LET ME BOLDLY SAY THAT THE GREAT PREDUDICE AND I'LL EVEN SAY HATRED AGAINST THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS BECAUSE GOD'S ENEMIES HATE THAT TRUE WORD OF GOD.

THEY KNOW WHAT IT IS, AND THEY HATE IT.

IT'S THAT SAME STREAM AS IN ACTS.

YES, THE WORD WITNESSES FOR GOD.

THE KING JAMES IS ONE OF THE GREAT BIBLES OF THE POWERFUL PROTESTANT REFORMATION WHICH BROKE LOOSE GOD'S WORD FROM THE PRIVATE HOARD OF THE PRIESTS --

AND BROUGHT IT INTO THE READING OF THE COMMON PEOPLE -- PRAISE GOD.

Modern bible scholars may speak of the equivalent word of God -- this is nonsense.

The Bible verses above plainly supported the correct doctrinal of VERBAL INSPIRATION of the bible.

Like the Apostle Peter said to Jesus Christ in John 6:

⁶⁶From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

⁶⁷Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

⁶⁸Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

⁶⁹And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Yes, the true word of God is still in this world and still witnesses for God.

How does the BLOOD witness for God today?
As strange, and incredible, as it may sound to modern readers -- RED WINE IS THE VIRTUAL BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.
WE MUST USE THE "JURY DUTY" METHOD OF COMBINING SCIENTIFIC STUDIES AND MEDICAL HISTORY AND THE BIBLE, TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS, INDEED, ACTUALLY TRUE.
RED WINE IS God's present day virtual representation AND WITNESS, OF CHRIST'S BLOOD.
This is one of the immensely significance aspects of Jesus Christ's FIRST miracle of changing the water into wine in John 2 in the little town of Cana, Israel.
It was his FIRST miracle, the text specifically says it was the THIRD DAY, and it was a MARRIAGE.
I include all of John 2 at the end of this paper.
Although it is an implication, it is unmistakable that Jesus Christ is equating his sacrificial atonement blood with WINE.
See, Wine's Amazing Healing Ability Plus Jesus' Equation, Wine = His Blood, Virtually Prove Christianity!
See my specific pages THEY HAVE NO WINE, and RED WINE ONLY AT CHRISTIAN COMMUNION, for many more details including references to two large European scientific studies.
Evolution is taught SUBLIMINALLY, it is SUBTLY embedded as an assumed "given" within every thing that IS taught in today's culture.
It gives us feelings deep down inside that the Bible is not really trustworthy.
Like the old man who went for his first airplane ride -- said later "I did not really put my FULL weight on that airplane seat."
Lots of so-called Bible believers will not put their FULL weight on the Bible.
The jury duty method, the scientific evidence that red wine had demonstrated medical benefits head and shoulders above any other foods or drinks, and the Bible's unmistakable, prominent featuring of regular red wine, as with King of Salem and Priest of the Most High God, Melchisedec, bringing bread and wine to great Abraham, returning from military victory, in Genesis, as "washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes" in Genesis 49, "gladdening the heart of man," in Psalms 104, and the marriage in Cana in John 2, and in numerous other instances.
Wikipedia has a great article on historical, medical use of wine showing its very substantial, widespread usage in times past, and the obvious experience that it was genuinely effective in medicine. I quote:
"When the ancient Greeks introduced a more systematized approach to medicine, wine still retained its prominent role. The Greek physician Hippocrates recommended wine as a part of a healthy diet and advocated its use as a disinfectant for wounds, as well as a medium to mix other drugs in for easier consumption by the patient. He also prescribed wine as a cure for various ailments ranging from diarrhea and lethargy to pain during childbirth.^[2] The medical practices of the ancient Romans involved the use of wine in a similar manner. In his 1st century work De Medicina, the Roman encyclopedist Aulus Cornelius Celsus detailed a long list of Greek and Roman wines used for medicinal puropses. While treating gladiators in Asia Minor, the Roman physician Galen would use wine as a disinfectant for all types of wounds, even soaking exposed bowels before returning them to the body. During his four years tending to the gladiators only five deaths occurred, compared to sixty deaths under the watch of the physician before him."
Several of the numerous societies attached to wine:
Wine and Health, Wine 101, Professional Friends of Wine.
The Society for Medical Friends of Wine has many great technical articles involving wine and medicine.
Evolution is broadcast subliminally -- it enters us below the radar, without us realising it.
It gives us the sneaking feelings deep down that the Bible is not reliable.
But, Jesus' clear, consistent example of handling the Bible, is that the Bible means what it says.
Psalm 19 gives a good example of the jury duty method with the first half talking of God's glory in the heavens, the last half talking of God's truths in Scripture:
¹The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
²Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
³There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
⁴Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
⁵Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
⁶His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
⁷The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
⁸The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
⁹The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
¹⁰More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
¹¹Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
¹²Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
¹³Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
¹⁴Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
God is revealed in what he has made, in what he has done, and in what he has said -- these must be combined.
John 2:
¹And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
²And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
³And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
⁴Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
⁵His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
⁶And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
⁷Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
⁸And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
⁹When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
¹⁰And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
¹¹This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
¹²After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days.
¹³And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
¹⁴And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
¹⁵And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
¹⁶And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
¹⁷And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
¹⁸Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
¹⁹Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
²⁰Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
²¹But he spake of the temple of his body.
²²When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
²³Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
²⁴But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
²⁵And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 John 5:7,8:
⁷For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
⁸And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
AS VERSE 8 SAYS THESE THREE WITNESSES ARE IN PERFECT AGREEMENT.
Not sure you are a Christian?
Check out THEY CAME TO JESUS!
or one of the other of the pages at this site, Jesus Gets a Visitor in the Night.

Enter supporting content here